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	<title>Comments on: An Inconvenient Youth, Part Two</title>
	<atom:link href="http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two</link>
	<description>I marshal the middle between Mathers and McLuhan.</description>
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		<title>By: Reading Hip-hop: No Nostalgia Needed &#124; Roy Christopher</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-9100</link>
		<dc:creator>Reading Hip-hop: No Nostalgia Needed &#124; Roy Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 21:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-9100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] out an important distinction between nostalgia as a commercial mode and nostalgia as a social or collective mood. The former is often enabled by the latter as we drool over reissues of long lost demo tapes or [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] out an important distinction between nostalgia as a commercial mode and nostalgia as a social or collective mood. The former is often enabled by the latter as we drool over reissues of long lost demo tapes or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 33 1/3: Books About Records &#124; Roy Christopher</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5700</link>
		<dc:creator>33 1/3: Books About Records &#124; Roy Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] mysterious time in the Beasties&#8217; history. LeRoy&#8217;s insightful epilogue regarding nostalgia is also not to be [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mysterious time in the Beasties&#8217; history. LeRoy&#8217;s insightful epilogue regarding nostalgia is also not to be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Christopher</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5403</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 15:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jon, I totally agree with your Justice show vs Kiss show example. Authenticity comes from experiences, not products or eras.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, I totally agree with your Justice show vs Kiss show example. Authenticity comes from experiences, not products or eras.</p>
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		<title>By: j ragel</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5398</link>
		<dc:creator>j ragel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 22:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems like skating made a fairly clean shift from &#039;old school&#039; (which contained big decks, launch ramps and use of skate board as primary means of transportation) to the more current norm, which was once called &#039;street style&#039; (smaller decks, more flip tricks and eventually a much bigger marketing culture).

I just bought a Vision Gonz with Indie trucks at Goodwill for 10 dollars.  It&#039;s in great shape.  Of course, if I need to go to the store for groceries I&#039;ll still use my bike.  I don&#039;t think my &#039;old school&#039; deck and outdated tricks are better then the newer puny decks with tiny wheels.  In fact, I think it&#039;s pretty smart to take the bus to the skate park---you have more energy to skate when you get there.  

I think true maturation in these matters involves focusing less on &#039;things&#039; and more on the social and cultural interactions with those things.  For instance, I bet kids at a Justice show in 2008 are having a similar experience to kids at a Kiss show in 1978.  In fact, the two experiences may be more similar then we could ever dream.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like skating made a fairly clean shift from &#8216;old school&#8217; (which contained big decks, launch ramps and use of skate board as primary means of transportation) to the more current norm, which was once called &#8216;street style&#8217; (smaller decks, more flip tricks and eventually a much bigger marketing culture).</p>
<p>I just bought a Vision Gonz with Indie trucks at Goodwill for 10 dollars.  It&#8217;s in great shape.  Of course, if I need to go to the store for groceries I&#8217;ll still use my bike.  I don&#8217;t think my &#8216;old school&#8217; deck and outdated tricks are better then the newer puny decks with tiny wheels.  In fact, I think it&#8217;s pretty smart to take the bus to the skate park&#8212;you have more energy to skate when you get there.  </p>
<p>I think true maturation in these matters involves focusing less on &#8216;things&#8217; and more on the social and cultural interactions with those things.  For instance, I bet kids at a Justice show in 2008 are having a similar experience to kids at a Kiss show in 1978.  In fact, the two experiences may be more similar then we could ever dream.</p>
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		<title>By: PFJ</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5369</link>
		<dc:creator>PFJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 02:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[remember when blogs used to be real...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>remember when blogs used to be real&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Allen: Every Force Evolves a Form &#124; Roy Christopher</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5360</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Allen: Every Force Evolves a Form &#124; Roy Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] RC: It’s nostalgia marketing. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] RC: It’s nostalgia marketing. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: brian tunney</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5283</link>
		<dc:creator>brian tunney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Remind me to bother the hell out of you about this...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remind me to bother the hell out of you about this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gyrus</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5282</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, it&#039;s good to nail down the variety we&#039;re talking about.

It&#039;s fascinated me that Genesis P-Orridge, who has made some of the most extreme anti-nostalgia statements imaginable (can&#039;t find them now, but I&#039;m sure people who know him/her know what I mean), has spent much of his career working over the past - especially his fixation with Brian Jones, who he met as a teenager. His description of this encounter is a kind of archetypal instance of that &quot;glow&quot; that we perceive in the culture we&#039;re excited about when we&#039;re young.

But the whole late-&#039;80s &quot;Godstar&quot; project, which he described as an attempt to exorcize the hidden cultural grief for this icon, to bring Jones&#039; presence to light &lt;em&gt;in order to move culture forward&lt;/em&gt;, is an interesting example of productive nostalgia. The sadness is there, but it&#039;s embraced in a spirit of exuberance rather than clinging &amp; wallowing. You have to take it on whole-heartedly without attachment - not easy! Anyway, in P-Orridge&#039;s cosmos, honouring Jones&#039; lost spirit like this helped him (&amp; collaborators) move forward with their contribution to &quot;the next Big Thing&quot;, which was acid house and rave.

Imaginal psychology writers like James Hillman and Robert Romanyshyn are a great source of perspectives about nostalgia, grief and the past that dodge both denial and wallowing...

Sorry, I saw &lt;i&gt;Napoleon Dynamite&lt;/i&gt; but I think I&#039;ve buried the memory! ;-)

But yeah, maybe nostalgia per se isn&#039;t the enemy - nor is futurism, or whatever we want to call the opposite. Is it the clinging that gets us lost in either? We can get lost in the present, too: a zero-attention, amnesiac, visionless wallowing in the here and now...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s good to nail down the variety we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s fascinated me that Genesis P-Orridge, who has made some of the most extreme anti-nostalgia statements imaginable (can&#8217;t find them now, but I&#8217;m sure people who know him/her know what I mean), has spent much of his career working over the past &#8211; especially his fixation with Brian Jones, who he met as a teenager. His description of this encounter is a kind of archetypal instance of that &#8220;glow&#8221; that we perceive in the culture we&#8217;re excited about when we&#8217;re young.</p>
<p>But the whole late-&#8217;80s &#8220;Godstar&#8221; project, which he described as an attempt to exorcize the hidden cultural grief for this icon, to bring Jones&#8217; presence to light <em>in order to move culture forward</em>, is an interesting example of productive nostalgia. The sadness is there, but it&#8217;s embraced in a spirit of exuberance rather than clinging &amp; wallowing. You have to take it on whole-heartedly without attachment &#8211; not easy! Anyway, in P-Orridge&#8217;s cosmos, honouring Jones&#8217; lost spirit like this helped him (&amp; collaborators) move forward with their contribution to &#8220;the next Big Thing&#8221;, which was acid house and rave.</p>
<p>Imaginal psychology writers like James Hillman and Robert Romanyshyn are a great source of perspectives about nostalgia, grief and the past that dodge both denial and wallowing&#8230;</p>
<p>Sorry, I saw <i>Napoleon Dynamite</i> but I think I&#8217;ve buried the memory! ;-)</p>
<p>But yeah, maybe nostalgia per se isn&#8217;t the enemy &#8211; nor is futurism, or whatever we want to call the opposite. Is it the clinging that gets us lost in either? We can get lost in the present, too: a zero-attention, amnesiac, visionless wallowing in the here and now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Christopher</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5281</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps it&#039;s simply one variety of nostalgia I&#039;m speaking to. For a clear image, think of Uncle Rico in &lt;i&gt;Napoleon Dynamite&lt;/i&gt;. That kind of nostalgia can&#039;t be seen as good for anything (except comic relief of course).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s simply one variety of nostalgia I&#8217;m speaking to. For a clear image, think of Uncle Rico in <i>Napoleon Dynamite</i>. That kind of nostalgia can&#8217;t be seen as good for anything (except comic relief of course).</p>
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		<title>By: Gyrus</title>
		<link>http://roychristopher.com/an-inconvenient-youth-part-two/comment-page-1#comment-5280</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roychristopher.com/?p=693#comment-5280</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The day I&#039;m looking back, lamenting the now, is the day I want to cease.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not sure older people looking back is so poisonous. Maybe that&#039;s part of the deal. When 12 year olds aren&#039;t convinced that what&#039;s happening now is the best thing ever, when &lt;em&gt;they&lt;/em&gt; are looking back with envy to their parents&#039; or grandparents&#039; culture, then maybe we&#039;re in trouble (and there are plenty of those kinds of signs).

Nostalgia is changing because the rate and nature of change is changing. But I often question the unquestioning counter-cultural allegiance to novelty, the (apparent, at least) loathing for looking backwards. Douglas Rushkoff once said luddite tendencies were useful in that they acted as a brake on runaway technological development. Some luddite faction might say they want a total abolition of technology, or a certain form of technology, but they never achieve it. But in the process, even though they&#039;ve not stopped &quot;progress&quot;, they&#039;ve given it pause, maybe stopped it from careening off in inhuman directions. Neither the &quot;pro&quot; nor the &quot;anti&quot; factions achieve their goals in a pristine form; but if the society is a healthy whole, the outcome is generally better for all.

It&#039;s all to do with looking in a Howard Bloom fashion at the sum ecology of the social organism. Maybe the nostalgia of older people acts as a brake, a way of helping society maintain ties to the past even in the face of catastrophic change.

Of course attachment to the past can harden in unhealthy ways; but there&#039;s unhealthy potential in the other direction too. I guess you&#039;re acknowledging some place for nostalgia in saying it&#039;s &quot;not inherently bad&quot; except &quot;when it comes from a sad place&quot;. But again, isn&#039;t that sadness part of the deal? The &quot;algia&quot; bit means pain or sickness, as in neuralgia or whatever... Nostalgia without the sadness is a bit like the 12 year-old&#039;s excitement about current culture without the excitement!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The day I&#8217;m looking back, lamenting the now, is the day I want to cease.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure older people looking back is so poisonous. Maybe that&#8217;s part of the deal. When 12 year olds aren&#8217;t convinced that what&#8217;s happening now is the best thing ever, when <em>they</em> are looking back with envy to their parents&#8217; or grandparents&#8217; culture, then maybe we&#8217;re in trouble (and there are plenty of those kinds of signs).</p>
<p>Nostalgia is changing because the rate and nature of change is changing. But I often question the unquestioning counter-cultural allegiance to novelty, the (apparent, at least) loathing for looking backwards. Douglas Rushkoff once said luddite tendencies were useful in that they acted as a brake on runaway technological development. Some luddite faction might say they want a total abolition of technology, or a certain form of technology, but they never achieve it. But in the process, even though they&#8217;ve not stopped &#8220;progress&#8221;, they&#8217;ve given it pause, maybe stopped it from careening off in inhuman directions. Neither the &#8220;pro&#8221; nor the &#8220;anti&#8221; factions achieve their goals in a pristine form; but if the society is a healthy whole, the outcome is generally better for all.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all to do with looking in a Howard Bloom fashion at the sum ecology of the social organism. Maybe the nostalgia of older people acts as a brake, a way of helping society maintain ties to the past even in the face of catastrophic change.</p>
<p>Of course attachment to the past can harden in unhealthy ways; but there&#8217;s unhealthy potential in the other direction too. I guess you&#8217;re acknowledging some place for nostalgia in saying it&#8217;s &#8220;not inherently bad&#8221; except &#8220;when it comes from a sad place&#8221;. But again, isn&#8217;t that sadness part of the deal? The &#8220;algia&#8221; bit means pain or sickness, as in neuralgia or whatever&#8230; Nostalgia without the sadness is a bit like the 12 year-old&#8217;s excitement about current culture without the excitement!</p>
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